A new epidemic is creeping across parts of the US. It primarily affects infants and children of higher socio-economic status, and it has the potential to cause horrible illness and death. It has already begun to cause outbreaks in scattered communities throughout the country. If it is not contained quickly, more carnage will result. The epidemic I am describing is not Swine Flu. It is not a newly mutated animal virus imported from some far-flung corner of the globe. It is the epidemic of parental vaccine fear, and it is a major threat to the safety of children everywhere.
As a pediatrician living in New York, I often see soon-to-be parents who are expecting their first child and are looking for a doctor for their new baby. These prenatal visits are usually a time for parents to ask some basic questions about my practice, maybe a few questions about what to expect in the first days after the birth of their child, and mostly to get a feel for me and my office. But an interesting change has occurred over the last few years. A new item has cropped up in the usual list of new parent questions: vaccines. A common question I get is “what’s your philosophy about vaccines?” My response to this question is something along the lines of, “well, it’s not a matter of philosophy. It’s actually a matter of science, and I follow what the science tells us.” In fact, I can’t remember the last prenatal visit that didn’t include at least one question about vaccines. What in the past was a given – that children would receive the vaccines recommended by their pediatrician, in the order that they were recommended – is no longer so for many parents today [1]. This bedrock of pediatric care has been recast as a question, an uncertainty, a matter of opinion and debate. It is a dangerous new dynamic that seriously threatens the safety of our children. Many parents have vague concerns about unspecified risks, but in general need only reassurance to go forward with vaccinating their children. Some parents have specific concerns based on information gathered from friends, acquaintances, on the internet, or in the media. Some have fears about vaccines in general, or the number of vaccines given, and are less easily reassured. Some parents are ardently opposed to vaccines altogether, and refuse to have their children vaccinated at all.
What has led to this new epidemic of fear? The answer is complex, involving a convergence of multiple factors: a lack of understanding of how science works, mistrust in medicine in general and in expert advice even more generally, mistrust in government oversight and the pharmaceutical industry, and a growing counter-culture trend, particularly in more highly educated socio-economic populations. The most common vaccine concerns can be summarized as follows:
- Vaccines have been linked to autism – While this is true, vaccines have been linked to autism, they don’t actually have anything to do with autism. I will not tackle this myth here, but suffice it to say, not a single shred of valid scientific evidence has ever been put forth to support a causal link between vaccines and autism. However, volume upon volume of excellent, peer-reviewed data has unequivocally shown no such a linkage [for a complete set of references, see the references section of this post from the Science-Based Medicine blog].
- Vaccine ingredients, like thimerosal, aluminum, squalene, and others can lead to immunological and neurological consequences in infants – Again, no valid data exists to support such a belief, and the existing science points us in the opposite direction.
- Too many vaccines can overwhelm an infant’s immune system, leading to a host of disease conditions – This is absurd on its face to anyone familiar with basic immunological principles. All of the childhood vaccines combined, are but a mere drop in the bucket compared to the immunological challenges an infant faces every day. Not only can an infant’s immune system easily handle the combinations recommended in the routine schedule, but the number of immunologic stressors, if you will, contained in the current schedule (that enormous, and growing list the anti-vaccine community complains so much about) has actually been decreasing due to improved vaccine technologies [2].
As I mentioned above, the reasons for this spreading wave of mistrust of what was once regarded as the greatest weapon against childhood disease, are complex. But a single, now thoroughly discredited paper published over 10 years ago, purporting to show a linkage between the MMR vaccine and autism, is responsible for at least this current, modern wave of anti-vaccinationism. So much has been written about this paper and the damaging fallout resulting from its publication, that I wont rehash it here [3]. But the subsequent media frenzy, and numerous tangential theories, equally unsupported by science, has kept the frenzy alive [4][5].
My pediatric practice is situated at the nexus of three Manhattan neighborhoods (the West Village, Chelsea, and the Meat Packing District) that seem to comprise just the right balance of wealth, edginess, and socio-cultural awareness that lends itself to this new mistrust of vaccines. But these neighborhoods are not unique. According to sources at the NYC DOH, the Upper West Side of Manhattan and Park Slope in Brooklyn are also hot-spots of parental vaccine resistance. What stands out about these neighborhoods, and others like them, is that they contain a high percentage of middle to upper middle class families that tend to be young, well educated, and liberal in their political and social views. Because I live in one of these areas, work in another, and fit this description pretty squarely, I can identify with the underlying tendencies at work behind the concerns of these parents. A healthy questioning of authority (doctors), an underlying mistrust in the competence of the government (the CDC), overt mistrust and a general level of cynicism of big business (the pharmaceutical industry), and a sense of empowerment that comes with one’s social status, all contribute to this tendency to mistrust vaccines and those who recommend them. The difference between these concerned parents and myself (also a parent), is an understanding of the scientific method and the role it plays in this issue. One term that I have purposefully left out as a key element in this new epidemic is “skepticism.” While many of these parents believe they are being skeptical of vaccines, their manufacturers and the agencies that recommend them, this couldn’t be further from the truth. What they are being is misled and taken advantage of. They would actually be better characterized as anti-skeptics. To quote Brian Dunning of Skeptoid.com,
The true meaning of the word skepticism has nothing to do with doubt, disbelief, or negativity. Skepticism is the process of applying reason and critical thinking to determine validity. It’s the process of finding a supported conclusion, not the justification of a preconceived conclusion.
The net result of this snowballing paranoia and anti-skepticism, is that the door has opened wide for anti-vaccine fear-mongering by an increasing number of organizations and non science-based “maverick” doctors, and parents are listening. Not a day goes by in my practice without encountering the effects of this mass-hysteria. Parents are afraid of vaccines, victims of a cultural mythology about vaccine risks that has been bolstered by a wave of media hype and irresponsible pseudo-journalism. I spend a large amount of time with parents discussing the real science and trying to debunk these hardened myths. Often I am successful at convincing them to vaccinate their children. Many, while agreeing to all or most of the vaccines, ask to use a “spread-out” or “alternative” schedule, like the one recommended by Dr. Bob Sears (see my take-down of him on the Science Based Medicine blog). While not every parent is familiar with Dr. Sears, most are aware that there is an “alternative” to the schedule recommended by the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices and the American Academy of Pediatrics. Forget that an enormous amount of thought and deliberation went into devising this schedule by our nation’s leading experts in pediatric infectious disease, epidemiology, and vaccinology. Parents now know there’s an “alternative,” and for some that’s good enough. Many who choose the “alternative” schedule can’t really give a reason why, other than “I’ve heard it’s safer.” This is no different for the vast majority of parents who have concerns in general about vaccines; they know they’re worried about vaccine risks, they just don’t know exactly why. Amazingly, this lack of a basis for their concerns doesn’t prevent these fears from taking control and informing what is likely the most important decision they will ever make about their children’s health. Fears about non-existent vaccine risks prevent children from being protected against very real, very dangerous agents of death and disease.
A trendy way to die
So why are parents so quick to make such bad decisions for their children when it comes to this issue? And why does there seem to be a connection between zip code and vaccination rates? Unlike most of the world, where vaccination rates are directly proportionate to socioeconomic status, it appears that may not always be the case here in NYC, and probably other urban centers around the country. Typically, under-vaccination has been found to be most prevalent in inner city, black children with unwed teenage mothers, while un-vaccinated children have tended to come from higher socioeconomic backgrounds, and have mothers who are married with a college degree [6]. The reasons for this are that under-vaccination has typically been a result of poor access to good health care continuity for children at or below the poverty level. Non-vaccination is usually a result of a decision made by a parent who has major concerns about vaccine safety, and who is empowered to reject the expert advice of authority. Such strong, anti-vaccine positions were once confined to a very small subset of the population. Complete vaccine refusal remains, fortunately, a relatively rare occurrence in the US. But under-vaccination is being seen increasingly now in communities where being up-to-date with vaccinations was a once given and, in fact, a marker of the highly educated and socially aware. Now, as more and more socio-economically advantaged, empowered, parents play with the vaccine schedule, cherry-picking which vaccines to give and when, the problem of childhood under-vaccination may be changing from being predominantly a result of inner-city poverty, to that of cultural elitism. In other words, we are experience a very dangerous fad, where it is now trendy to question the advice of one’s doctor, and to mistrust medical experts in general. Of course children are the ultimate victims.
The growing trend of questioning the safety of vaccines, and even the very concept of vaccination itself, has resulted in pockets of underimmunization throughout the country. The increasing number of such hot-zones has already resulted in outbreaks of completely preventable childhood disease.
Measles
Soon after the infamous Wakefield paper was published in 1998, vaccination rates against measles, mumps, and rubella, plummeted in the U.K. Outbreaks of these diseases began popping up all over the region, eventually reaching epidemic proportions. And, although the fictional link between the MMR and autism arose over 10 years ago, there’s no sign that things are getting any better. Last year saw the highest incidence of measles cases in the UK in over 20 years, all due to pockets of underimmunization resulting from media coverage of Wakefield’s discredited findings. Predictably, it wasn’t long before the wave of fear reached our shores. Although not as widespread, this uprising against vaccines, based on nothing but pseudo-science and newly spawned campaigns of misinformation, began to create a dangerous climate of vaccine refusal here in the U.S. It didn’t take long for outbreaks of mumps and measles to occur in areas scattered throughout the country. In 2006, the largest outbreak of mumps in over 15 years, centered in Iowa and involving 10 other states, effected over 2,500 people. Last year, measles cases in 15 states contributed to the largest US outbreak in over 10 years. In Brooklyn, an unimmunized traveler from Israel infected other unimmunized children in a pediatrician’s office, sparking the borough’s largest outbreak of measles in almost 20 years. Other recent outbreaks in Indiana, San Diego, Arizona, Milwaukee, Washington State, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Texas are just the tip of the iceberg if this dangerous trend of vaccine refusal continues.
Hib
Much to the horror of pediatricians, recent outbreaks of invasive disease due to Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) have brought back this dreaded scourge. Hib is an extremely nasty bacterium that used to cause invasive disease in a startling 1 of every 200 children in the U.S. under 5 years of age. That was, until the vaccine pretty much eliminated it from our country after its introduction in the late 1980s. The vaccine has been so successful, that pediatricians my age and younger have likely never even seen a case of invasive Hib disease. Not true for those trained just a few years earlier. They remember that, of the children unfortunate enough to come down with invasive Hib disease, approximately two-thirds will develop meningitis, and about 5% will die. Up to 30% of the survivors suffer permanent brain damage. Those children lucky enough to avoid meningitis develop pneumonia, septic arthritis, osteomyelitis, cellulitis, epiglottitis, or generalized sepsis. Now, because of pockets of underimmunization and the spread of so-called “alternative” vaccine schedules, younger pediatricians will be able to learn, first-hand, about a disease they could previously only read about in text books.
Pertussis
Pertussis, or whooping cough, is one vaccine preventable disease that still circulates with high prevalence despite the existence of a good vaccine. In fact, the incidence of pertussis is actually increasing in the U.S. There are several reasons for this, including inadequate vaccination of infants, waning of vaccine-induced immunity in adolescents and adults, and a high frequency of undiagnosed pertussis infection that can lead to spread of disease to susceptible individuals. Another reason is that, although an adolescent/adult version of the vaccine (Tdap) is now recommended and routinely given to children 11 years of age and older to boost their immunity, similar recommendations to vaccinate all adults are usually unheeded by internists and obstetricians. This is a major problem, because infants and children (in whom pertussis can be an extremely severe disease) are infected by adults whose immunity to pertussis has waned. Anecdotally, I can tell you that most of the physicians I’ve spoken to who take care of adults, are not even aware of these recommendations (I’m currently working on a study of knowledge and attitudes of obstetricians about the Tdap vaccine.) Now, add to this the changing attitude of parents concerning vaccines, and we have a dangerous set-up for an even worse scenario with regard to the future of pertussis control in this country. Not surprisingly, it has been shown that when parents refuse or delay the pertussis vaccine for their children, these children have a significantly higher risk of developing pertussis [7]. The danger of an increasing incidence of pertussis is that, while it is an extremely annoying disease for adults, it’s an extremely dangerous one for infants and young children, in whom complications are much more common and include pneumonia, dehydration, encephalopathy, cerebral hemorrhage, and death.
The Pendulum Swings
An often-used saying by those who fight against the irrationality of anti-vaccinationism, is that “vaccines are the victim of their own success.” Certainly, vaccination has been one of the most successful public health measures. They have been so successful, that most parents (and most physicians) have no first-hand knowledge of the diseases against which children are vaccinated. These horrific diseases are but an abstraction, and the ubiquitous nature of the myths about vaccine dangers – in the mainstream media, spouted by celebrities on TV, and on the internet – have become much more “real” to an increasing number of parents. Now, it seems, that the worst of our fears may be coming true. Not that vaccines cause autism, or multiple sclerosis, or asthma, or cancer, but that the parents who fall prey to these beliefs are leading us down a very dangerous path – a path we’ve been down before, and upon which we should never again have to tread. The pendulum has swung, and it may just be too late.
References:
[1] Omer S, Salmon D et al. Vaccine Refusal, Mandatory Immunization, and the Risks of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases. NEJM 2009 360:1981-1988.
[2] Offit P., Quares J., et al. Addressing Parent’s Concerns: Do Multiple Vaccine Overwhelm or Weaken the Infant’s Immune System? PEDIATRICS Vol. 109 No. 1 January 2002, pp. 124-129
[3] Deer B. The Wakefield factor. Briandeer.com
[4] Mooney C. Why Does the Vaccine/Autism Controversy Live On? Discover June 2009
[5] Hall H. Vaccines & Autism: A Deadly Manufactroversy. eSkeptic June 2009
[6] Smith P. Chu S. et al. Children Who Have Received No Vaccines: Who Are They and Where Do They Live? PEDIATRICS Vol. 114 No. 1 July 2004, pp. 187-195
[7] Glanz J., McClure D. Parental Refusal of Pertussis Vaccination Is Associated With an Increased Risk of Pertussis Infection in Children. PEDIATRICS Vol. 123 No. 6 June 2009, pp. 1446-1451
This is a great, concise and focused article on the subject, really good to show to non-skeptic friends. I’m sharing this on facebook, thanks!
I for one wish vaccines were madataory for starting school, with very few “excuses” tolerated. No religious grounds, no conscientious objections, only an immunocompromised state documented by the lab work-up should be grounds. Public health considerations and child protection considerations should outweigh individual “rights.” You don’t have the right to shove your child in front of a moving vehicle; you don’t have the right to expose your child to deadly preventable diseases.
Mr. Synder’s article shuts down discussion and discourse on the topic of vaccination. I challenge Mr. Synder to have a debate and a discussion of the research on the topic with Dr. Russell L. Blaylock, a neurosurgeon. Perhaps Mr. Synder, the self-appointed guardian of science and reason, could provide readers with some more diverse research citations or references in his next diatribe against those who question his paradigm. NEJM, Pediatrics and Discovery do not constitute a substantial body or research or data.
STG
What do you mean by “the topic of vaccination”? Can you be more specific? I’m sure I can cite volumes of evidence if you’d like, but I’ll need to hear a little about what issue you’re challenging exactly.
Are you speaking of the same Dr. Russell L. Blaylock who believes that [the Soviet program was linked to crack-cocaine, fentanyl, ecstasy and methamphetamine, and that it was responsible for "an epidemic of hepatitis, AIDS, venereal diseases and highly resistant tuberculosis". He accuses the US media and the US government of knowing about the Soviet plot, but failing to expose it.] – Blaylock, Russell (2002). “Neuropharmacology as a Long-Range Strategic War Policy”. aapsonline.org. http://www.aapsonline.org/jpands/hacienda/blaylock3.html. Thank you Wikipedia.
I found this article very interesting, and need to think about it and consider it. I am the mother of two daughters – one 10 year old with autism and one typical 7 year old. My oldest child began her life developing normally until after her MMR shot, when she stopped speaking and making eye contact with me. I am aware that is also coincidentally about the time that regressive cases of autism start – but it has been long road back – and she still speaks in only vocal approximations and some sign language. When my youngest was 13 months old, she wasn’t pointing and hitting some of her “landmark” development. So I decided to stop vaccinating for that year. Within two months, all her development came flooding in. When I felt confident all was OK, I began slowly catching her up on her vaccinations. However, I had to fight with doctors (or just change doctors), when I asked them if I could come back on separate visits for multiple vaccinations. I felt that with a sibling who so visibly regressed right after vaccination, that our genetic vulnerability was likely greater than other families and wanted to be precautious with the vaccinations. I have not further vaccinated my older child who is only caught up to her first round of vaccinations (about 3 years). My children rarely get sick (thankfully, I don’t want to jinx it with this post), and I do think that my reaction was fairly logical for our situation.
It is hard for me to understand getting the Flu shot, that is only guaranteed to protect against some of the kinds of flus that are out there. I know many people/families who get flu shots and still get the flu. Since we are lucky enough to rarely get the flu (perhaps 1x a year), that is a very tough sell.
One final comment. I personally don’t know if the vaccinations caused my daughter’s autism or not. I actually don’t care at this point, I just move forward and help her as much as I can from where we are. However, I think one of the reasons that “educated” moms (such as myself), start to distrust the medical community – is that when my daughter started to regress in 1999 – my pediatricians were very dismissive and looking back didn’t seem to understand any of the signs of autism. Because it was my first child, I kept telling them that something was wrong, I just wasn’t sure what it is. I am a very optimistic glass half full kind of person, yet my doctors all dismissed my ideas as a just a worried mother’s silly fears instead of a real mother’s intuition. I wish so much that I was wrong – but I wasn’t. I really wish I had known what I was dealing with earlier and could have gotten some help and support, but instead I had to figure it out myself on the internet. I think that is a big part of where the mistrust of the medical community from autism parents came from – certainly for me.
STG, if the cited research published in NEJM and Pediatrics isn’t substantial enough for you, show us *your* evidence. I’m quite keen to see what you bring to the table in this regard.
Very good article.
Dr Snyder, have you thought about whether or when to take a stand on the issue, and state that you can not in good conscience accept new patients whose parents deny them vaccinations? That you will not be a party to the spread of preventable communicable disease?
Gingerbaker:
I have considered that. My approach is to keep patients in my practice and to work to educate over time. I think I’m more likely to succeed than most, and I usually am. There are plenty of physicians who wont spend as much time or effort, or who frankly don’t care, or who are themsleves anti-vaxers. I do keep a sign in my waiting room that reads:
“Increasing pockets of under-immunized children are occurring throughout the country, due to a growing wave of misinformation about vaccine risks. This puts all children at risk from serious, fully preventable diseases. If your child is not following the recommended schedule of vaccines, please notify the front desk, as this places the other children in the waiting room at risk.”
This puts a measure of stigma on these parents that I believe is now warranted. It also makes other parents aware of the danger in their midsts, and may lead to some long-overdue parental outrage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Blaylock
Yes, Dr. Blaylock is a retired neurosurgeon, which gives him exactly zero special expertise in microbiology, immunology and the clinical study of vaccines.
He also does a terrific imitation of a paranoid schizophrenic.
Concerning the MMR scaremongering – the original Wakefield paper was published in 1998; the scaremongering in UK media only began in earnest 3-4 years later, and this is when vaccination rates plummeted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy
This is why Ben Goldacre of Bad Science blames the media, not Wakefield, for amplifying one unethically conducted case series with poor methodology into a serious public health issue.
At the nurse’s station of my health clinic, they have a folder with information about vaccines, including detailed and frankly wrenching stories of real people (names changed) who died of vaccine-preventable disease. There is a widespread belief among many vaccine “refuseniks” that illnesses like measles, mumps, etc. etc. are benign complaints that merely make you feel a bit rotten for the weekend, and then you’re right as rain. As an individual who got all my immunizations on time as a kid, and who had my own children immunized on the approved i.e. scientific schedule, even I would probably have thought the same thing. But reading some of these stories opened my eyes to what can go horribly wrong when, say, measles doesn’t come and go as I had imagined it did. As for Hib, tetanus, pertussis etc. many people probably have no idea what these even are, or what they can do. There is nothing, then, like a true story of the destruction they cause to the human body, or of the fact that they can lead to death, that must surely be sobering to the most belligent anti-vaxxer. Not only that, but how much do the anti-vaxxers think of the risks posed to the immuno-compromised of a fall in vaccination rates? I would hope that many of them, as people who pride themselves on having a sense of civic responsibility, would be receptive to such arguments. I wish that the science were enough to convince people to do the right thing. If not, there is nothing like a good story to win then over. The media knows it — regrettably to our cost, at least on the subject of vaccines.
Some other tidbits from Bruce’s link:
Russell L. Blaylock, MD is a retired neurosurgeon and author. He charges that certain food additives such as aspartame and MSG are toxic and that the H1N1 influenza vaccine is more dangerous than the viral infection itself. These positions are not consistent with current scientific consensus.[1][2][3]
Blaylock believes that Bill Clinton gave pardons and “free access to the Whitehouse” to “syndicate crime families”. He also wrote that Clinton allowed “Chinese ships” to give weapons to gangs in Los Angeles.[25]
He has also written for, and been on the editorial board of the journal of the politically conservative non-profit organization Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.[34] This journal was entitled Medical Sentinel until 2003, when it became the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JPandS).[35][36][37] He also authors The Blaylock Wellness Report for the conservative website NewsMax.[38]
And we should listen to a debate with this nutjob why?
Here’s the lowdown on the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JPANDS) and the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=99
It’s a truly whackaloon organization and “journal.”
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Friendfeed by Alexander Kruel: “A new epidemic is creeping across parts of the US. It primarily affects infants and children of higher socio-economic status, and it has the potential to cause horrible illness and death. It h…
a sense of empowerment that comes with one’s social status I informed the parents of a toddler that their child had head lice. (I saw it strolling across the child’s cute blonde curls!)
The first words out of the mom’s mouth were: She can’t have lice, we live in {expensive gated community} and she goes to {expensive pre-school}!
The privileged ones have a hard time accepting that lice, bedbugs, ringworm, and contagious diseases are equal-opportunity infestations.
I have great confidence in the vaccines that have been developed and used over the past 4 or 5 decades, and have no hesitancy to give them to my children–even to my diabetic two-year-old son, for whom ANY illness becomes a health challenge because of what it does to his blood sugar. That said, there are vaccines that have been disseminated within the past 10 to 15 years that I am not so secure in trusting. I have much less confidence in the chickenpox vaccine, for instance, than in the old-fashioned method of establishing immunity through direct exposure, and I’m not at all confident in the new vaccines for HPV that are being pushed at teenage girls. The reason I lack such confidence is that I’m wary of the pharmaceutical companies that have developed these vaccines. I do not feel that they do so out of concern for public health, but more out of concern for the financial welfare of their stockholders. Moreover, I feel the safety testing has been far less rigorous in recent years than previously, and that the incentive to downplay adverse events and “spin” results of trials. As a scientist and a writer, I’m fully aware of how easy it is to nuance statistics and facts–you can’t change the numbers themselves, but you CAN pick and choose which numbers you make public. There has been a frightening amount of scientific misconduct reported recently, some of it going back years or even decades, in which this is exactly what was done. Skepticism of fear-based decisionmaking is fine, but there’s also such a thing as caveat emptor, and when the people offering the data to us have a financial incentive to convince us to use the product, that raises red flags as to the data’s veracity.
What makes you have less confidence in this vaccine than in the others? The vaccine is highly effective at preventing disease. Although immunity wanes after the first year, breakthrough disease in children who have received the vaccine is almost always extremely mild. For any of the vaccine-preventable diseases, choosing natural infection as a means of achieving immunity for one’s child, as opposed to immunization, is a short-sighted, dangerous game of chance.
These are the same pharmaceutical companies that manufacture and sell all of the other vaccines, so I’m not sure what you think has changed in the last 10-15 years. And I don’t know why you believe the safety testing has declined. In fact, pre and post-marketing safety measures are extremely exhaustive and getting better all the time. Yes, scientific misconduct occurs, and cherry-picked data gets published. But if anything, you should be more optimistic now than in the past, as efforts are increasingly being made to prevent such scientific malfeasance.
I’m with you here–our kids were vaccinated on schedule–but when we as first time parents simply asked vaccine related questions of our pediatrician she treated us like slack-jawed morons. That sort of behavior is intolerable; thankfully we were able to switch pediatricians within the practice. I’ve talked to so many parents who had similar experiences in the late 90’s and early 00’s (hopefully things have changed somewhat). For medicine to be evidence based physicians need to be willing to have the conversation with parents. The strides in public health in our lifetime have truly been miraculous, and it is really too bad that pediatricians are letting celebrities and fringe groups have the edge simply because they aren’t developing mutually respectful relationships with the parents who engage them to care for their children. I think that if people trusted their doctors more, they’d listen to all this internet and tv stuff less.
While there is much in this article which is useful and sound, the currently popular connotations of “skepticism” seem to be repeated. The section saying that the “true meaning” of skepticism has nothing to do with doubt is simply wrong. Oxford Concise English Dictionary definition begins with “a person inclined to doubt all accepted opinions; a cynic”. Skepticism begins and ends with doubt. It derives from a set of Greek philosophers who denied the possibility of all knowledge.
“Skeptic”, as attractive as the label is, does not mean “someone who only accepts scientifically demonstrated notions, and trusts doctors”.
I had polio as a child before the vaccine was available. When I was in the hospital there was a row of iron lungs containing children that could not breath without this machine. When you have seen this first hand you will never forget it. I had no permanent damage but others were not nearly so lucky. This was a devastating disease that left small children completely or partially paralyzed. When the vaccine came out it was like a miracle. Parents were thrilled to be able to finally protect their children and polio became largely a disease of the past.
The anti-vac crowd should be required to view a few hours of footage of the polio wards from the forties and fifties and see the result of this horrible disease. It was common and widespread back then and no one was objecting to ending this horrible disease. It is easy to proselytize when you haven’t seen the effects first hand.
WHY WHY WHY are these lunatics allowed to prevail and have an opinion? When their children die because of their stupidity, they give up ANY chance of being in the forum… SORRY !!
ES Hambling, Merck did’t develop the HPV vaccine – they produce it. There is a world of difference and an you might compare it to the relationship between author and publisher. The author in this case was a variety of groups working over several decades including researchers from the University of Rochester, Georgetown University, US National Cancer Institute and the University of Queensland (in my hometown, Brisbane, Australia).
I think it is good the be wary of pharmaceutical companies as they have demonstrated wrongdoing, but please don’t smear the hard work of scientists and researchers who work on vaccines just because you don’t like their ‘publisher’.
E.S. Hamblin,
I could not limit my comments to a length appropriate to the comment section. My comments are at Tin Foil Hat, Inc. and Vaccination –
http://roguemedic.blogspot.com/2009/10/tin-foil-hat-inc-and-vaccination.html
My understanding on the chickenpox vaccine is that scientists initially developed it and used it there for at least 10 years if not longer before it was licensed for the US. So, the varicella vaccine is not new.
I do not understand the belief that having a disease naturally is somehow better. If it was, then these vaccines wouldn’t have been developed. Of course, without vaccines, we’d have child mortality rates skyrocket. Getting full-blown tetanus does not confer immunity. Only the immunization seems to.
I think people forget one simple fact. Diseases don’t care if you are rich, poor, educated, uneducated, pink, black, brown, purple, or any other color in-between. They only care they have the opportunity to infect you and do what they are designed to do. I do whatever I can to keep my son from getting these diseases and that includes vaccines.
Chickenpox is a curious one. People hear that it (the infection) gives ‘permanent immunity’ without realising that this is because it permanently infects the ganglia of the spine, thus constantly stimulating the immune system against it (as it is secreted at low levels). The idea of this ‘permanent immunity’ versus the vaccine which ‘wears off’ seems attractive to parents who don’t seem to fully understand that a ‘natural’ infection opens the door for shingles later in life.
I do feel parents should be better informed about the nature of the infection at various stages of life, and just how long-lived the effects of the vaccine have been found to be (impressively so: The WHO, http://www.who.int/vaccines/en/varicella.shtml).
Is a week off school as a kid and a chance of shingles later in life preferable to a shot and the slight inconvenience few boosters throughout life? I would rather the vaccines (but the choice was made for me some years ago
)
I wonder if there is a correlation between the public fear that we see here, and the global war on terror and misinformation the public was bombarded in the last few years, certainly the the time line would suggest this is a possibility.
The fear of vaccines is unmerited. But people dont seem to fear the vaccines, it is rather a fear of government and big business that manifests itself. and of course there is ugly history, from the SHAD project, Tuskegee and others
in this age of rumor, distrust, and deliberate misinformation, It just might be that apart from being victims of their own success, vaccines are also a victim of the shadow war, of which we see few details, but changing nonsensical color bars.
I had whooping cough at the start of this year and it was horrible, not just because it’s a nasty disease but because I had to avoid large sections of my social network because many work with children, who may or may not be vaccinated.
I had never been told that immunity for pertussis waned in adults, or I would have had shots for it. I recommend it for everyone because coughing like that sounds terrible coming from an adult, you don’t want to hear a baby coughing like that.
I am a parent of a child who has been diagnosed with autism (though he is now diagnosed ‘normal’) and I vaccinate. I temper this with the statement that I am skeptical about every vaccine. I do my research, I get the materials sheet now, and the lot number, and record the date and location in our records. I get the thimerosal-free versions of vaccine for myself and my children whenever possible. My child does not have the last MMR, I’m waiting a bit, in case. However, we had his titers checked and he has very good immunity. If he did not have immunity, I would have had him receive it. He will probably get it next year.
I have read my history. I KNOW what vaccines have done for society. Their benefit is immense. I get sick to my stomach when I think that children are not being vaccinated. From research, and my thought, I perceive that the benefit outweighs any risks we might be taking in getting these vaccines. Still, I worry every time…..
As a parent I think the medical community has not met parents halfway on this. Science is complicated. Its possible that something is being missed. Its possible that autistic children have a genetic complication. I know studies are being done. I’m glad about this. I think doctors, and scientists need to acknowledge that nobody knows everything. Parents today live in a world where there is lead and cadmium in toys, dishonesty and lack of responsibility at every turn, and our trust is very low. We need honesty, good communication, and all those values that seem very lost in the medical community we depend on. Good bedside manner will win this war. That, and honesty from all parties involved, from the government, to the vaccine makers right on down to the pediatricians.
BTW, my pediatrician always listens to my concerns. We work creatively…as in getting titers rather than vaccinating. Having a modified vaccination schedule for the parents who can pay for it seems like a reasonable thing to do. Why not meet parents halfway? I don’t agree with the fear-mongering, but its possible that something is being missed. Why not be just a little modest?
I am a scientist. I run experiments. In my field, a few things we assumed were not possible just 10 years ago have shown themselves to be possible. An experiment, or a study can miss the complexities that are prevalent in reality. Working to improve the vaccination process seems like a win-win situation, from my perspective.
Katherine:
I’m glad your son is now doing well. I’d like to address some of the concerns you brought up in your comment:
You’re right that the benefits outweigh (far outweigh) the risks of vaccinating. And, as you stated, you know that the benefits are great and that vaccinating is the most important healthcare step you can take for your child. But still you worry every time.
You wrote:
Since you’re a scientist, you should know that this is, in fact, a fundamental element of the scientific method itself. As you state very well at the end of your comment, science is constantly questioning itself, correcting previous errors of analysis and reformulating hypotheses, all based on the best available evidence. This is the scientific method. Your worries, however, stem from ideas and beliefs that are not based on the best available evidence. You wrote:
This is really the most common worry preventing parents from vaccinating their children, but it isn’t rational. Of course it’s possible. Science can never state anything with 100% certainly. To be true to the principles of science, findings are never presented as final statements of fact, but are always discussed in statistical terms, and generalizations beyond the data are made only in the context of the existing knowledge base.
The fact that unethical practices occur on the part of physicians, scientists, and industry, is not a rational reason to mistrust the large and diverse base of evidence refuting any causal linkage between vaccines and autism. Waiting for more evidence (the precautionary principle) doesn’t make sense. The science is not murky or in conflict here. It speaks loudly and clearly for those who are truly open to the evidence, and for those who ate truly skeptical of the information they hear around them.
Dr. Snyder, I enjoyed the article. Could you please settle a long debate I have been having with my ex-wife. What is the safe dose of mercury? My understanding is that thimerosal contains mercury but the amount that it adds to the vaccine is tiny.
The answer to this question is rather complex and involved. I will direct you to a piece I wrote, for a now defunct blog I started a while back, that may help you win this argument with your ex. Good luck…..
http://rationaleyes.org/2008/03/17/as-the-world-turns-into-irrational-fearmongers/
This article gives a plausible explanation of how vaccines might cause autism. The author claims adjuvants are the problem. He states:
“The adjuvant initiates an inflammatory reaction (the first step in any immune response). The idea is to get the immune system revved up so that it can see the weakened disease and learn what it looks like so that if it ever sees it again it will be more prepared to fight it. This concept, in and of itself, has validity – but only given the right set of circumstances.”…..”The multiple inflammatory insults from the adjuvant in vaccines, at a rate of 1 in 150 cases, sets the brain on fire and causes autism.”
His argument seems to be that excessive inflammation could be caused by multiple pro-inflammatory adjuvants given close together at a very early age.
His solution is to give fewer vaccines, spread them out over time, and give them at a older age.
What do you think of his argument?
I think his argument displays an astounding ignorance of science and of the body of available evidence that contradicts just about everything he says. First of all, adjuvants work by augmenting the local immune response at the vaccination site. Without them, many vaccines would simply not produce an adequately robust immune response, unless we injecting enormous amounts of antigen – something which, I’d hazard to guess, the anti-vaxers would probably also be pretty unhappy about. In “Cashing in on fear: the dangers of Dr. Sears”, I discuss the scare tactics around vaccine adjuvants, and why the science just isn’t there to support them.
Dr. Snyder,
My kids are vaccinated, and like Katherine above, I question every single vaccine and its safety. Obviously, I also agree that the benefits outweigh the risks, but I know firsthand that when it’s your child having problems, it is a lot harder to think of the “greater good”.
A couple of questions. From my own reading, it seems that the issue at hand is how live virus interact in a cocktail, i.e. MMR or MMRV. I know you feel these are proven beyond a doubt, but why then was MMRV pulled from the market two years after its introduction? My reading says it was because it experienced something like double the number of complications of a “normal” vaccine, but perhaps there was another reason?
Also, if there are no problems, why had the VAERS system paid out billions for vaccine injury, and why has the CDC ordered research into genetic susceptibility of certain individuals to vaccines (this past June)? If they find such a link, do you feel this would be a legitimate reason for parents to opt out for their kids?
I must also agree with Katherine that many in the medical and scientific field are totally unyielding, and this is not reassuring to parents. There was a time when calling the world round was heresy, after all. As I’ve said, I am pro-vaccine, but I am also skeptical when someone tells me they are “sure” of anything.
tx,
bmc
Ben:
MMRV
The MMRV vaccine was withdrawn from the market because of the post-marketing surveillance finding of an increased incidence of febrile seizures compared to the individual MMR and varicella vaccines. It is believed that this is a result, not of some intrinsic febrile-seizure inducing property of the vaccine, but because there is a higher incidence of fever with this combination vaccine, and thus a higher likelihood of inducing febrile seizures in children with a predisposition for them. But this is a good example (along with others, such as the decision to remove the original rotavirus vaccine from the market) of the excellent and sensitive surveillance systems we have in place to ensure the safety of our vaccines.
VAERS
VAERS data is often misunderstood by the public and misused by the anti-vaccine community. VAERS is a voluntary, passive surveillance system designed to pick up potential trends in adverse vaccine events. It is an extremely helpful tool to detect small signals in the community that could indicate a problem. VAERS data, however, tells us absolutely nothing about causality. This is extremely important, because some have used VAERS data as if it was analyzable raw data that could be used to make inferences about causality. As a passive system, anyone can make a report to VAERS, and everyone is encouraged to report any adverse event on the reportable events list that occurs subsequent to a vaccine. Some of these events are extremely minor, some are catastrophic. Most are not actually due to the vaccine, but are simply coincidentally associated in time. Some are absurd, such as a report of an individual being turned into the incredible hulk, and many are even made by lawyers who represent vaccine clients. In terms of payouts, the VICP compensates individuals deemed to have been injured by a vaccine. This is funded by an excise tax on each vaccine antigen administered. The decisions are often based on expedience rather than science, and also say nothing about causality.
My biggest pet peeve is when someone tells me with absolute confidence that no vaccines aren’t safe… this being based on the very real fact that (for example) 1 in 100,000 people will develop GBS (associated with vaccines. Say what? 1 in how many? There is no other product that is so closely monitored for the sake of such a small percentage of bad reaction. Ok, so how many people can’t have penicillin, aspirin, egg whites…. ya see where I’m going with that. I have even had someone point out to me that there is NO SUCH thing as a vaccine without a reaction because, afterall, there can be pain at the injection site. Ohforferkssake!! this statement makes me want to tear my hair out!!!! A needle causes pain? Needles bad! Ban needles!
My experience is that the moms who are militantly anti-vax don’t even personally know anyone that’s had a bad reaction, but have only read about it on websites like the dailymail.co….uk or whale.to. And, if they HAVE experienced a bad reaction they presume everyone else also has (and didn’t realize it, of course, because the gov’t has put other stuff in it to cleverly mask the real side effects, or because you’re just too stupid to have noticed that you suddenly developed an allergy to water and have a third arm growing out your back) or that it’s only a matter of time before they will. I’m sorry your bathwater went bad, but the baby is still good, folks. As stated above in another post, there are genetic reasons why one will have either a good or bad response to, uhm, pretty much anything.
I think that SEWAGE system was a big breakthrough for the health of man kind…… possibly more influential than vaccines.
Ooooh — inflammation bad.
So if parents are to be afraid of the (generally unnoticeable) inflammation from the adjuvants in some vaccines (NB: many don’t have them, but I doubt you’ll hear that from him) what are we to make of the vastly more powerful inflammations caused by sunlight, spicy food, insect bites, scraped knees, …
I may have to take some of those back, though, since wrapping our little darlings in cotton has become fashionable again.
Rebecca:
I presume you mean, “that no vaccines are safe”.
Actually, I do get where the fear comes from. If what you understand is that one vaccinated child in 100,000 will die or have permanent disability as a result of the vaccine, and that (making up numbers here), one unvaccinated child in 1000 (or even one in 100) will get sick for a week or two as a result of not being vaccinated… which choice would you make?
Of course, that’s the misinformation, but it’s what many believe. They don’t understand that the 1 in 100,000 isn’t directly due to the vaccine. They don’t understand how serious the diseases can be. They just worry about injecting something into the child that, as they see it, might hurt him.
I get it.
And that’s what we’re up against, as we try to correct the misinformation.
E.S. Hamblin: Unfortunately, by allowing your child to contract Chicken Pox naturally (as most of us did), you will be giving him the ‘gift that keeps on giving.’ In addition to the all-natural poxy-goodness of the actual Varicella-zoster infection, he’ll get to look forward to the possibility of an encore in later life in the form of Shingles. The vaccinated kids won’t.
While you may be a scientist and writer, I don’t feel that your claims about less rigorous testing in recent years is accurate. The vaccine researchers and pharmaceutical companies I work with certainly don’t seem to be running fewer trials, documenting less data, or needing fewer approvals!
I vaccinate my kids.
I am worried about the risk of mutation. If the kids who do not get vaccinated contract, carry and spread the diseases around, does this not elevate the likelihood of a mutation?
What are the risks of MY kids contracting a mutated strain of the diseases that I try to protect them against? Does this mean that the current vaccines are rendered useless?
????
Sherri, an interesting question.
Some infections survive in the population by having a high rate of mutation (eg: flu, gonorrhea) which ensures the parts of them seen by the immune system are constantly changing. Vaccines are designed to allow the immune system to target essential parts of the individual infectious agents (eg: pneumonia’s capsule components), things that are unlikely to mutate greatly, due to their essential nature.
Naturally, it’s not perfect. At the extreme end of the spectrum there’s the flu, which has a high mutation rate – something not all that common amongst the infections immunised against in the childhood vaccine roster. The risk of such a mutation is low, but I cannot give a definitive answer due to lack of specialist expertise.
Actually, there was probably no point in me commenting as I couldn’t properly answer
No. I don’t think the statement is supportable, and I apologize. This reference, however, demonstrates nicely how great an impact our vaccine campaigns have had on morbidity and mortality in the US:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/298/18/2155
Yes Barry, that’s what I meant. Scuze the typo.
And I get what you’re saying too.
Correlation. I know.
1 in 100,000 becomes a significant number when the 1 is your kid, yes, yes, I know. But the risk of damage (brain damage in this case) from measles disease is about 1 in 5000. Risk of damage from measles vaccine: 1 in 100,000 (or less, can’t find actual stats). Meh, I’m no mathmagician but uh… yeah.
I like Sherri’s question and hope someone can answer.
Thanks for the article.
I am an example of what happens when people don’t have their kids vaccinated. I am 40, and received all of my infant, childhood and adult vaccinations on schedule. I even had a few extra (hepatitis A and hepatitis B) because of my work (a nurse) and because I’m gay.
In 2007 I was diagnosed with mantle cell lymphoma. In order to treat me I needed to have intensive chemotherapy and an autologous stem cell transplant (my own stem cells reinfused after my bone marrow had been destroyed). When both of these things happen you get immunosuppressed and very susceptible to infections. I was warned not to be in contact with small children because of the number of upper respiratory tract infections, gastrointestinal tract infections and so on that they carry. I was also warned that because vaccination levels in Australia are so much lower, there was a risk of acquiring diseases I’d been vaccinated against, particularly after I had my stem cell transplant, as all memory cells are destroyed and each bacteria or virus is presented to the body as it were for the first time.
I did contract a number of chest infections and gut infections. We expected those. However, after my stem cell transplant I acquired pertussis, chicken pox, measles and rubella in the time between completion of the transplant and when I could be revaccinated. I certainly did not hang round kids younger than the routine vaccination age – I avoided them! Herd immunity levels are now so low that these infections are commonplace.
Another case springs to mind, too – about 3 years ago I nursed a young man who had returned from South East Asia with polio. He had gone undiagnosed for some time and had very nasty paralysis and other problems that are now permanent. All because his ‘alternative’ parents had him vaccinated with ‘homeopathic vaccines’. I can tell you he is terribly grateful about that.
As the mother of a seven week old baby, I am constantly astounded by the number of parents who plan to refuse vaccination or only allow selective vaccination of their children. I am worried about my son’s vulnerability to these illnesses, and I will be until he has completed the full schedule. It frustrates me that state law allows anyone to opt out of vaccines, because this makes it impossible to find a daycare where I can be assured that all children are vaccinated. As an asthma patient who frequently takes steroids which can lower immune response, I am only to aware of the dangers that these illnesses can pose to anyone whose immune system is compromised. People need to stop being so self-absorbed and think about the well-being of not only their children, but of others as well. I’m glad that my son will be starting his shots at his two-month appointment next week.
It appears to me, Dr Snyder, that you are displaying some of the behavior which inspires mistrust; in particular, you are making forceful statements which seem to admit no possibility that anyone could rationally hold a different opinion. E.g.
A quick look at the information available online (IGNORING anything that has an obvious anti-vax agenda) suggests that you are asking us to trust your interpretation of the data. Why set yourself up as the arbiter of what data is valid?
Meeting a true skeptic–someone who thinks for themselves–halfway, I believe a respectful answer goes more like this: “In-vitro studies (in test tubes and petri dishes, not living organisms) sometimes show that these ingredients have adverse effects. But epidemiological studies (on actual vaccinated populations) don’t show a convincing statistical link. It’s not technically possible to prove a negative–therefore it isn’t reasonable to wait until you have an iron-clad guarantee before making a decision–but the best-available data don’t show the clear link that we’d expect to find if these ingredients did had the sort of harmful effects that are attributed to them.”
Nobody trusts the government because they serve too many masters. (Marion Nestle published a story about overhearing government officials discussing a new recommendation; in the end, they set their cutoff not where the available data showed the jump in risk to individuals, but instead at a lower point where enough individuals were above the cutoff to make development of treatments financially viable. Is this in the public’s best interest? Quite possibly. Does it engender trust? NFW.)
Dr. Snyder,
I appreciate your reply. I found this site as an oddity when looking for scarce H1N1 shots for my kids that night. I couldn’t help myself from commenting, although I was really quite sick with some kind of bad stomach flu. I meant to say ‘humility’ rather than ‘modesty’, but couldn’t get the right word out of my addled brain
Anyhow, I’ve got my wits about my a bit more now, and I wanted to write something else. You are quite correct, nothing in the world is 100%. I also understand that humans are very bad at judging risk. N equals two for me, in my real life experiments with childhood vaccination! I completely understand that as a doctor, and as a doctor with some experience, the opinions of yourself and your colleagues are given a high weight. However, I have….not uncertainty, but a pause after my life experience. Here is my child’s amateur case study.
I kept a diary of my son’s childhood sickness. I’m like that! He became sick within 6-24 hours of every vaccination visit, running a fever of 101-104. Otherwise occasional sickness. My husband and I took him to the hospital several times, the ER for high fever. He was diagnosed with PDD-NOS at age 3. He only slept 2 hours at a time, was oppositional, stimmed, but had good language skills. I quit my job and did everything to help him get better. He has allergies to latex, several plastics, gluten, milk, soy, and possibly peanuts. I’ve gone as far a as very mild colonic cleanse, but nothing as drastic as what Jenny McCarthy is advocating, kids can die from some of those holistic treatments. Probiotics seem to help. Vitamins, particularly B vitamins, seem to help. No TV is helping, as is Reiki, and Qui Gong (using very mild acupressure points). He sleeps all night, makes good transitions now, no longer stims, and you couldn’t tell he’s been diagnosed, though he is a bit quirky in a brainy kid kind of way. He doesn’t seem to have as much trouble these days, though both my children got the H1N1 flumist, and he got the sniffles. Its nothing like a 104F trip to the ER though! My other child has no troubles with flumist or vaccinations.
I think it could have been coincidence, but it got to the point where I dreaded a doctor visit, because of the fevers. It may be that some children have problems with vaccinations. It may be correlated with autism spectrum disorders. The medical community was cold to my child and myself. In a long view, the medical establishment has a high volume of patients, yada yada….but as a person, it was jarring. I understand what it is like to be a pariah. I understand how wrenching it is, and how the medical treats these people. Its fueling the anti-vaccine movement. Support for these children, and their parents really needs to be improved. This is the most important point I’m making here, in this personal story.
Another aspect was the ‘out-there’ alternative treatment, some of which really seemed to have a quick effect (more notebook). I was not a believer, but I was desperate to do something, and I was willing to spend some money. I’m not a fool, mind you, there’s a cost calculation and research for all the treatments we tried and recorded in my personal notebook. The alternative community provided emotional support, as well. Don’t discount this until you’ve had a child with autism, or not slept more than 2 hours for 3 years and then you’ve been discounted by your pediatrician! It all might be placebo effect, but placebo effect has measurable therapeutic benefits. The medical establishment that I’ve encountered is still hostile to this. I’ll never know for sure if any of this helped my son, or not. But, what if I hadn’t tried some of it due to a scientific sort of prejudice?
The ‘pox-parties’ (and yes, I know of people that do this!) have a ‘we’re taking our destiny into our own hand’, real frontier vibe. Don’t discount the emotions involved in this as ’stupid people’. Those ’stupid people’ are going to really mess up that herd immunity, and we’ll all suffer. The medical establishment needs to meet an average, tired and scared parent half way.
Thank you for listening.
Maybe, just maybe if the pharmaceutical companies weren’t such big business and didn’t have lobby groups running the Government of this Country, people might actually take the “newest” epidemic more seriously. Maybe if the media wouldn’t sensationalize everything like they did with SARS or the AVION flu, people wouldn’t have the “sky is falling” or the “cry wolf” attitude that persists in this Country. I have worked more pharmaceutical conferences where companies like Pfizer and Merck pay for trips, hand out golf clubs and give big rewards to salesmen and doctors alike for pushing their products on patients than I care to admit. There are lawsuits for days against these companies for pushing through drugs that weren’t thoroughly tested. If you are going to say that this is an epidemic, then give give the shots for free. Isn’t that how a Government is supposed to take care of it’s people ? the normal old flu kills over 30,000 people a year in this country and nobody says boo. have the pharmaceutical companies lost so much money in this bad economy or have had so many lawsuits held against them that this is a new way for them to make money by making the public spend money on yet another fully tested drug ? Sorry, but I will wash my hands, get sleep, eat less sugar and take care of myself before I let “the sky is falling ” think run my life.
Michael,
I don’t mean to put words in your mouth, but the statement, “maybe if the pharmaceutical companies weren’t such big business and didn’t have lobby groups running the Government of this Country, people might actually take the “newest” epidemic more seriously,” seems to imply that pharma companies are unique in their possession of lobbyists. Here are several examples of lobbyists that are pushing (quite successfully) their cause for “alternatives” to clinical medicine, and I can assure you, they are BIG business (5 minutes of work in google):
Citizens for Health
Foundation for the Advancement of Innovative Medicine
National Health Freedom Coalition
And for a list of lobby organizations that are supporting the autism/vaccine link, simply look to Age Of Autism’s list of supporters.
Organizations like these pushed congress into the formation of the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine.
I just wanted to make the point that disliking pharmaceutical companies for their “big business” practices is not a logical position.
What an interesting blog post! Dr. Synder brings up some interesting points. I don’t typically comment but I found this discussion very interesting.
To start with the US ranks extremely poor in overall health. This is no surprise to the average person. The US is #1 in emergency health (i.e. car accidents, heart attacks, ect.) but you don’t want to be in Belize if you or your family is in a car accident.
Here’s the stats, the US represents about 4.5% of the population and we consume about 70% of the world’s drugs. Our doctors are trained to think “the more drugs, the better”. Unfortunately that thinking has propelled us to the world leader in heart disease, cancer and diabetes.
The idea behind vaccines in noble. However little is talked about how the body builds immunity. There are two problems with vaccinations. First, they are toxic, and worse yet, they stimulate the wrong immune system. The doctor writing this did not mention this fact and I doubt any parents even know the difference in immune responses. When you stimulate the wrong immune system you are setting the body up for disease. When you receive a vaccination, you stimulate a Th2 immune response. A Th2 response is an emergency response where your body releases antibodies. This is why booster shots are recommended every 3-5 years. There is no permanent immunity. On the contrary, when you contract a childhood disease naturally, it stimulates a Th1 response, which is a cell-mediated response, and gives you a lifetime immunity. Many top scientists today feel we are exchanging childhood diseases for cancer, asthma, allergies and auto-immune diseases where the body is attacking itself.
If vaccines worked so well why would parents, teacher, doctors and other commentators on this blog be afraid of unvaccinated kids? Because vaccines don’t produce a better immune system.
As of October 1st 2009 Jock Doubleday’s vaccine challenge has gone unanswered. THE FOLLOWING OFFER is made to U.S.-licensed medical doctors who routinely administer childhood vaccines, to pharmaceutical company CEOs worldwide, and to the relevant members of the ACIP. He is offering $220,000 to drink a cocktail of additives used in childhood vaccines. This offer has been around for quite some time with no takers.
Dr. Synder can pen any blog he wants about how vaccines are safe. But he’s not going to take the challenge either, which clearly tells you, these doctors don’t believe what the tell their patients to do. Here’s the link, I could not make it a hyper link, sorry.
http://spontaneouscreation.org/SC/VaccineOffer.htm
p.s. Dr. Oz said on national T.V. his wife and kids will not get the swine flu vaccine, and President Obama’s kids are not receiving the swine flu vaccine either.
To Our Health,
Dr. Wegmann
Dr. MJ Wegmann,
You claim to be a doctor yourself, but you cannot even manage to spell Dr. Snyder’s name correctly. You misspelled his name twice. Snyder is not an uncommon or complicated name to spell. Are we supposed to believe that you are any better at medicine than you are at spelling?
You have thrown 3 sentences together as if they are related, but you left out the supposed connection. You, as you do throughout your comment, did not provide anything to support your claim.
Interesting claims. Where is some evidence to support them? Show that medications cause the US to be the world leader in heart disease, cancer and diabetes. Something? Anything? Do you have even the slightest grasp of what you are writing?
This was just a rant demonstrating that you do not understand vaccines. If what you stated were true, vaccines would not only not work, but they would make people sicker. That does not happen. There is plenty of evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines. Here is a link to the Wikipedia page on the MMR vaccine. There is a discussion of effectiveness. At the bottom of the Wikipedia page, there are links to the research that shows the effectiveness of vaccines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine
First, you make a claim that you do not provide evidence for. There are a few commenters on this blog posting questions. There are others writing the same kind of silliness that you have written. There is no way to confirm if any of them are parents, teacher, doctors.
If any of them are afraid, they have probably been scared by the completely irresponsible misinformation that you and others in the big money quack medicine community have been spreading.
This challenge has nothing to do with vaccines. Others have pointed out the problems with this challenge. It is a farce.
Actually, the question people should be asking is Does Dr. Snyder get vaccinated himself? Does Dr. Snyder’s family get vaccinated?
Anything else is meaningless, since this is a discussion of vaccination, not a drinking contest. Not that I would expect you to understand.
Dr. Oz lacks credibility. It is unfortunate that there are irresponsible people providing him an audience on TV.
Provide some reliable evidence that President Obama is opposed to vaccination of his family. A link to a quack site is not evidence. A genuine news article from a reputable organization is required. While FOX News is not going to be something I trust on this, but I will accept other conservative news sources, such as the National Review, Forbes, or the Wall Street Journal. News does not mean letters to the editor from quacks.
Anyone following your advice should not expect good health. You do not seem to have any idea of what health, medicine, or science is.
Funny, President Obama’s daughters were, in fact, vaccinated for H1N1.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/10/sasha-malia-obama-president-barack-h1n1-flu-sidwell-friends.html
Jennifer,
Thank you.
I am shocked to learn that Dr. MJ Wegmann was spreading completely false information.
Here is a link to the release of information from the White house about that.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/10/27/vaccinations-first-family
Two immune systems? Really? Or do you mean two immune response pathways? The T1H is not the cell-mediated response, it is referred to as the humoral (non-specific) response, although it does release IgM antibodies. The T2H response pathway is the cell-mediated response, which calls upon memory cells to release IgG antibodies.
At least you had one part correct – vaccines stimulate the cell-mediated T2H response pathway to create memory cells so when a person is actually infected they can mount a more rapid IgG response, best explained by the “original antigenic sin” theory which vaccination relies heavily upon.
You claim to be a “Dr” but what is your degree in? I ask because I learned enough to rebut you in only ONE semester of immunology, which I took last spring (yes, I am still a student).
Hah! Jock Doubleday’s old nonsense. Hilarious.
Harriet Hall wrote about it last year:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=322
Also, as I recall, a bloggers have tried to take Jock up on his challenge, and Jock put so many conditions, caveats, and other hurdles in front of him that it is quite clear that his “challenge” is not sincere. Here’s more:
http://layscience.net/taxonomy/term/551
http://skepacabra.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/jock-doubleday-douchebag-hall-of-famer/
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=473
Dr. MJ Wegmann
Jock Doubleday is absolutely hilarious. I had a long exchange with him which Gorski has very kindly linked to, in which his behaviour bordered on the absurd. Anyone wanting to participate in his challenge is expected to pay thousands of dollars for the privilege, to buy a number of books, to submit to a “psychological evaluation”, and to sit an exam set by Doubleday which, if failed, means you lose the thousands of dollars you’ve given him.
Don’t take my word for how ridiculous this man is; simple read the contract as posted on his website – http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/ContractPartA.htm
Martin
Here’s some anecdotal information about the relation between autism and vaccines.
We decided, for all the wrong reasons, not to vaccinate our son. Amongst which the autism scare. He hasn’t been vaccinated. He IS however diagnosed Autistic.
I STILL lie awake regularly thinking about the harm we have put him in based on false information and a parent’s need to do the right thing. Needless to say that my anger borders on the wrong side of homicidal.
Oh, funny thing, the group which advised us not to go with the vaccination? When informed about this, and asked if WE could also tell our story now, would get back at us… That was about 1.5 year ago.
I now decided not to go near those people again, I might do things that’ll surely land me in jail.
Just thought I’d throw this in… I know anecdotes don’t constitute to thorough research but it seems to me the anti-vaccine lobby hasn’t got much more to go on though.
Patrick.
I worry about taking vaccines as well as as letting my kids take these vaccines. I worry about that. Theres so many different blogs and a wealth of information out there but everyone says something different.
Not everyone says something different: there are basically only two versions.
People with medical training, who look at the studies that’ve been done, and who’ve seen how well we’ve beaten back major illness, say that vaccines are far safer than the diseases they prevent, and that you shouldn’t worry about them.
Some people without medical training, who make wild guesses with no evidence behind them, and who see conspiracies, tell you that vaccines are bad.
This is not a hard pair to choose between, NYPESTPRO. Vaccinate the family.
I agree that there really are only two ways to look at this. Vaccinate vs. don’t vaccinate. However, the different anti-science groups portray themselves as being different.
They are not really different. Some say, “I feel that all vaccines are bad.” Others say, “I feel that only some vaccines are bad.” Still others say, “I feel that not delaying vaccines is bad.” And so on.
The reality is that all are substituting their unscientific feelings for scientific evidence. They then look for anything to suggest that their ignorance actually is some sort of scientific approach, or that it is in any way beneficial for children. The anti-vax mob completely fail.
Opposed to the feelings of the various anti-vax mobs is science.
Avoiding vaccination dramatically increases the chances of sickness and death for the children not vaccinated and for those who come into contact with these infectious children and adults.
It is hard for me to believe many of the things I usually read. Fist of all I saw some documentary movies about this kind of vaccine. Some people said that this diseases are only made for people to gain money, people who don’t care about the others of course. This is why I believe that this treatments have many side effects.
1) If vaccines are as protective as the vaccine providers and pediatricians suggest, how does a child who is not vaccinated threaten a child who is? It makes no sense that if vaccines are effective and protective that a vaccinated child would be at risk from a non-vaccinated child.
2) Dr. Snyder, please address the Amish and their lack of autism.
3) Asthma, allergy, eczema, ADD, link to autism, vaccine contamination with possible cancer-causing viruses – are we trading a number of illnesses for another number of illnesses? In turn, the vaccine manufacturers reap the rewards.
4) Dr. Snyder, please address the Simpsonwood meeting. Of particular interest is how Dr. Verstraeten’s original data (as available by freedom of information) indicated a strong link between exposure to thimerosal and autism. It is interesting to note that when the paper was published in Pediatrics (after the Simpsonwood meeting), the data had been reworked. It’s also interesting to note that Dr. Verstraeten worked for GlaxoSmithKline following his academic research days.
- An interested physician.
If you are a qualified, properly medically trained physician, “Dr. Gator”, then I’m the King of France.
First, and easiest: (2) The Amish canard? This, right away, proves that you are credulously repeating the false information that the anti-vaccinationists propagate The Amish *do* have autism; the Amish have any number of children with neurological problems, and they fund very nicely set up modern hospitals to take care of them. Of course, that proves nothing either way, because they also vaccinate.
Then let’s skip back to (1) — this is what makes me doubt you have ever attended a real medical school. You see, at medical school they cover things like “efficacy rates” (hint: the efficacy of many vaccines ranges between 85-99% — this means that between 1% and 15% of all the kids who actually get the vaccine will still not develop an adequate immune response.) Then, of course, there are the immunocompromised, and those undergoing chemo, who would not be able to benefit from vaccines OR mount an adequate immune response to disease. That is why herd immunity is just so immensely important. Or do you think that it’s ok to risk the lives of thousands of people on the basis of tenuous “risks” with no evidence for them?
Which brings us to (3) — you blithely state all those as if they were fact. Your evidence? Studies? Heck, even a cohort study? You don’t get to make claims like that to educated people without having data in hand.
And (4) — repeating the oft-debunked Verstraeten gambit, no less. Thomas Verstraeten flatly denies that there was any “doctoring”, there is no evidence of change of conclusion in ANY draft of the paper, his conclusions have been replicated by multiple independent academic teams, and the few loud anti-vaccinationists alleging data-doctoring and coverup have never once managed to provide actual evidence of this.
Oh, and Tenpenny? She is a despicable liar, and I would be perfectly happy to say that to her face. She “quotes” Cochrane Review studies to support herself, except that if you actually go and, you know, LOOK at the studies she cites, they are either not a study of what she claims they are, or they simply reach completely different conclusions to what she says they do. She isn’t even particularly subtle about lying, she just relies on her audience never having the inclination to go check.
The kindest thing I can think of to say to you is, you need more of an education in *basics*, so that you can learn to tell good information from bad. On the slightly less kind, but equally truthful, side is the fact that you are spouting dangerous misinformation which leads to very real, documented and quantifiable risks to real people. You need to FIX that.
http://www.blip.tv/file/2839117
one of the few debates out there between a vaccine advocate and an anti-vaccine advocate…very few of these have taken place. Both have good points, the data is, however, clearly on the side of Dr. Tenpenny…
1 in 6 developmental delayed children and a tripling in childhood diabetes/ADHD/neurodevelopmental disorders in the past 25 years (all CDC data). Is that all coincidence?!
Lynne
Thanks for your kind remarks. I ask questions and get attacked…typical.
Your personal attack on my education in order to discredit my questions is (unfortunately for you) WRONG…I am a US trained medical doctor, (MD USF, tampa, fl) as well as an MPH (USF, tampa, fl). Would you like me to email you a copy of diploma, I’d be happy to…I will refrain from attacking you.
BTW, there are MANY physicians out there who are awakening to the lies told by the pharmaceutical industry…I see that you are still blindly believing them. More vaccinations are not always best. I am not against all vaccines, however, I think we do over-vaccinate, and over-medicate children – that much is clear.
Glad Dr. V “flatly denied” working the numbers?? wow, I’m relieved…please…FIA (that’s freedom of information!) allowed for emails to be made available between him and many members of that meeting, clearly showing they were doctoring stats in order to lessen the effect of his damning data.
Here’s some education for you:
http://www.nomercury.org/science.htm
Dr. Gator, I am interested in your thoughts on Lynne’s response to your impression that the Amish do not have autistic children. This is a simple argument to confirm or dispute and yet it is repeated time and again as true.
While I cannot speak to the quality of Thomas Verstraeten’s study, I will say that it is VERY common (in my field of biology at least) for the results and statistics to change between presentation of a study at a conference and publication after peer-review. Often, conferences serve as a sounding board for preliminary work. And frequently, preliminary work means that more data or more rigorous statistical design is needed before publication is considered.
Finally, I was very interested to read through the documentation provided in the open letter at the link you mentioned. While I laud the efforts to provide citations for the arguments being made, I was a bit underwhelmed by the relevancy of the papers and research cited. For example, the very first paper cited as a source demonstrating the physiological consequences of thimerosal was lacking applicability. This paper, generously provided by the website (http://www.nomercury.org/science/documents/Baskin_Thimerosal_Toxicity.pdf), was an in vitro study, meaning that cells in a petri dish were subjected to does of thimerosal and measured for viability. Without a doubt, the thimerosal added directly to cells was toxic for some cells, but only at 4 TIMES the dosage of thimerosal as that found in a child’s compliment of vaccines. Likewise, there was a very thorough listing of papers demonstrating the biomolecular effects of ethly-mercury on living tissues. There was also a long list of papers citing findings about the molecular biology of autsim, but almost no studies making any link between the two. Really, the letter could only point to a few researchers, like Geier and Geier. They seemed to have come up with key research linking thimerasol with autism in 2003, but have yet to manage to publish these results. That is a red flag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Hw-Q23S_s&feature=youtube_gdata
Conflict of interest…all over the place.
“Babies can tolerate 10000 vaccines at once”, per Dr. Offitt. And vaccine pushers think that the non-vaccine pushers make outlandish quotes! Dr. Offitt has made MILLIONS off of rotateq…my wife was sick for a week with nausea/vomiting/diarrhea after our son was vaccinated for the rota virus. That is when I started questioning all of this as a parent and physician.
Does anyone want to comment on the recent deaths related to prevnar…? or on the research that has shown extensive contamination of vaccines (with various forms of nanobacteria, yet unidentified virusus, mycoplasma, possible cancer causing viruses)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Cm94Udq6M